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[Spencer 555]

The bulls just traded Rose to the Knicks.
Derrick Rose, Justin Holiday and a 2017 2nd-round pick for Robin Lopez, Jerian Grant and Jose Calderon

Statistically speaking rose probably hurt the bulls more then he helped them last year.

Dumping his incredibly shitty salary for a serviceable PG in Calderon and a pretty solid big has to be viewed as a huge win.

Calderon can have his defensive issues covered up beside Jimmy Butler and can still shoot the three like nobodies business.

Justin Holiday and Jerian Grant are probably nothing and the 2nd round pick is probably nothing as well.

I like this deal a lot for the bulls. Only way the knicks win this deal is if D-rose turns the clock back. Horrible deal for the knicks as usual. I now expect them to be worse next year then they were this year with calderon and lopez.

[Da Gyps]

Interesting. I think it's smart to move on from Rose. He is just never healthy.

[The Cheat]

Ben Simmons is going to be a punk on and off the court.

I still don't get the hype. I watched him play many times this year and i saw...nothing really. Sure he is a good player, won't argue that. But the level of hype he is getting? Why? Someone please explain. I honestly don't get it.

[Spencer 555]

Not gonna pretend like I watched a ton of Ben Simmons, but the highlights of him I saw are really interesting.

To me he seems like a taller, longer, but skinnier Lebron James. Not many players have that kind of skillset.

Passing: His passing skill from what I can tell is on par with pure point guards. He looks like Magic Johnson sometimes with all the bounce passes he throws around and his turnover rate is definitely palatable.

Shooting: His jumpshot isn't great, but he has a wicked floater and he can get his shot off anytime he wants. Thing I really like about him is he seems super unselfish and gets his points efficiently.

Transition: He's super athletic and finishes above the rim. He'll be able to catch lobs and create lobs and find people in transition. Honestly this is probably the coolest and best part of his game.

Stick this guy in a lineup full of shooters and he's gonna find them, he struggled at LSU because his teammates didn't score a lot of the open shots he created for them. Honestly don't know how you can not be impressed by him. I'm very high on him, the only things I see that might hold him back are his lankyness (he doesn't have a huge frame to play the PF and he might not be fast enough to play SF on defense) and his jumpshot and his confidence could really take a hit if the 6ers continue to suck while he develops. I think he is gonna have a lot of pressure to be the next big thing right away and I think he's still a couple years away from being an elite talent.

[Greendaybum5]

Statistically speaking rose probably hurt the bulls more then he helped them last year.

Dumping his incredibly shitty salary for a serviceable PG in Calderon and a pretty solid big has to be viewed as a huge win.

Calderon can have his defensive issues covered up beside Jimmy Butler and can still shoot the three like nobodies business.

Justin Holiday and Jerian Grant are probably nothing and the 2nd round pick is probably nothing as well.

I like this deal a lot for the bulls. Only way the knicks win this deal is if D-rose turns the clock back. Horrible deal for the knicks as usual. I now expect them to be worse next year then they were this year with calderon and lopez.

haha you and I definitely don't see eye to eye with basketball.

1st off calderon is awful now. Look at Rose in the 2nd half of the year last year. This trade was made to get a big man since they're losing Gasol and Noah and to show Butler this is his team.

Jerian Grant could turn into a serviceable player, I don't understand why they gave him no playing time in NY. This also clears cap space for the knicks in future years for them to make a run and strike out next year on all the big free agents.

[Serge]

The best analysis I saw on the Rose trade was that it made the Knicks the frontrunners to win the 2011 NBA Championship.

[Spencer 555]

I wrote a big post that went in depth to explain my position a bit more, but it got deleted. Essentially what I said was this.

Rose = High Volume, inefficient scorer. Terrible Defensively, no jump shot, score first point guard who's only real skill is driving to the hoop and even with that he's not that great anymore. Terrible on the bulls last year and will be more terrible on a worse team if given the opportunity. I can see rose eventually being a decent bench scorer one day in the mold of what shaun Livingston is doing in golden state, but he's still viewed as a starter in this league and he's horrible. 20+m a year.

Calderon = Low Volume, decent efficiency playmaker. Even worse defensively, great jump shot, pass first point guard who actually has some NBA skills and can run an offence. Was a spot up shooter for the knicks last year in a triangle offense that saw him playing the role of Steve Kerr. Calderon will flourish in the bulls system and Butler will cover up some of his flaws on defence. I can see Calderon putting up similar numbers to what he did 2 years ago, playing 20+ minutes a night for the bulls and I can also see the bulls improving defensively as a team with health.

Lopez = 15 minutes a night, serviceable backup big. The bulls have a very deep big rotation as it is and they're gonna need to see what they have in the young guys. Pau is the primary center at this point, but Lopez will probably start some games and be fine for the bulls. Noah will be sorely missed, but Lopez will be able to stay on the court.

EDIT: Why will calderon flourish in the bulls system? Because they allow terrible point guards to run the offence at times (Kirk Hinrich, Derrik Rose) and they will allow Calderon to create some plays. On the knicks Calderon literally was not allowed to create for his teammates and was forced to play a role he's not bad at but a role that diminishes his potential value.

[Greendaybum5]

I wrote a big post that went in depth to explain my position a bit more, but it got deleted. Essentially what I said was this.

Rose = High Volume, inefficient scorer. Terrible Defensively, no jump shot, score first point guard who's only real skill is driving to the hoop and even with that he's not that great anymore. Terrible on the bulls last year and will be more terrible on a worse team if given the opportunity. I can see rose eventually being a decent bench scorer one day in the mold of what shaun Livingston is doing in golden state, but he's still viewed as a starter in this league and he's horrible. 20+m a year.

Calderon = Low Volume, decent efficiency playmaker. Even worse defensively, great jump shot, pass first point guard who actually has some NBA skills and can run an offence. Was a spot up shooter for the knicks last year in a triangle offense that saw him playing the role of Steve Kerr. Calderon will flourish in the bulls system and Butler will cover up some of his flaws on defence. I can see Calderon putting up similar numbers to what he did 2 years ago, playing 20+ minutes a night for the bulls and I can also see the bulls improving defensively as a team with health.

Lopez = 15 minutes a night, serviceable backup big. The bulls have a very deep big rotation as it is and they're gonna need to see what they have in the young guys. Pau is the primary center at this point, but Lopez will probably start some games and be fine for the bulls. Noah will be sorely missed, but Lopez will be able to stay on the court.

EDIT: Why will calderon flourish in the bulls system? Because they allow terrible point guards to run the offence at times (Kirk Hinrich, Derrik Rose) and they will allow Calderon to create some plays. On the knicks Calderon literally was not allowed to create for his teammates and was forced to play a role he's not bad at but a role that diminishes his potential value.

Jose calderon had a 45% FG% last year. Derrick Rose had a 42%. You're going to call Rose awful shooter and calderon a great jump shot? Come on man. Calderon has an amazing stroke from FT line, maybe one of the best ever, but by no means was he important to that deal he was a throw in to make contracts match. He's awful.

[Spencer 555]

Jose calderon had a 45% FG% last year. Derrick Rose had a 42%. You're going to call Rose awful shooter and calderon a great jump shot? Come on man. Calderon has an amazing stroke from FT line, maybe one of the best ever, but by no means was he important to that deal he was a throw in to make contracts match. He's awful.

That's a very misleading stat. Rose shot 42% total. Rose shot below 30% from 3 and his true shooting % was 48.

Calderon on the other hand shot 41% from 3 with a 57% true shooting.

Those are significantly different numbers and it means that players respect Jose Calderon's jumpshot whereas they sagoff Roses. What this means is that Rose is dreadful as an offball threat and players defending him are more likely to clog the paint and help protect the rim while rose is off the ball. The only real value he brings to the table is his ability to drive to the rim and either get a FT or finish. Rose is a scorer. Nothing more. His only NBA talent right now is driving to the rim (which granted he is pretty good at). That being said he's not good enough at driving to the rim or scoring in high volume that he'd bring value to a team, he's done.

For the bulls Calderon playing off the ball is a big 3 point threat and creates spacing on the floor in the paint. This is a HUGE deal for the bulls offence because with Kirk Hinrich and Derrik Rose, they had no spacing and defenses cheated preventing Butler from being as effective. The threat of Calderon's 3 point shot is going to create more space for Jimmy and Pau Gasol to score in the paint. I can see Butler and Pau's assist total and 2 point % go up simply by having calderon on the floor over Rose.

Also this: As I stated previously, I'm not completely sold that Calderon can't still be an elite playmaker (9+ assists per game). He was really underutilized in the knicks offense and didn't have the same quality players surrounding him that he will have on the bulls.

[Greendaybum5]

That's a very misleading stat. Rose shot 42% total. Rose shot below 30% from 3 and his true shooting % was 48.

Calderon on the other hand shot 41% from 3 with a 57% true shooting.

Those are significantly different numbers and it means that players respect Jose Calderon's jumpshot whereas they sagoff Roses. What this means is that Rose is dreadful as an offball threat and players defending him are more likely to clog the paint and help protect the rim while rose is off the ball. The only real value he brings to the table is his ability to drive to the rim and either get a FT or finish. Rose is a scorer. Nothing more. His only NBA talent right now is driving to the rim (which granted he is pretty good at). That being said he's not good enough at driving to the rim or scoring in high volume that he'd bring value to a team, he's done.

For the bulls Calderon playing off the ball is a big 3 point threat and creates spacing on the floor in the paint. This is a HUGE deal for the bulls offence because with Kirk Hinrich and Derrik Rose, they had no spacing and defenses cheated preventing Butler from being as effective. The threat of Calderon's 3 point shot is going to create more space for Jimmy and Pau Gasol to score in the paint. I can see Butler and Pau's assist total and 2 point % go up simply by having calderon on the floor over Rose.

Also this: As I stated previously, I'm not completely sold that Calderon can't still be an elite playmaker (9+ assists per game). He was really underutilized in the knicks offense and didn't have the same quality players surrounding him that he will have on the bulls.

I don't think Gasol stays with the Bulls... Their frontcourt will be Lopez, Portis and Mirotic. Also I'm not really comparing rose to calderon just saying calderon is useless at this point in his career. Maybe 10-12 minutes of the bench tops is what he'd be good for. Rose is coming into a season healthy and in a contract year. If he wants another good contract he has to play well. With Melo and Porzingis there and the chance of a big (Gasol, Noah or Howard) he could put up good numbers. Granted they're all old besides porzingis. Bulls definitely got better side of the deal as Lopez is locked into a reasonable contract with cap going up.