For NBA fans

[Spencer 555]

So you no doubt think kyrie is trash beside lebron like I do . JK tho, Olajuwon was definitely the star of the show in Houston for those championships.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NSwQTvN-uQk

Here's my argument for why Ben Wallace should be remembered as one of, if not the best, defensive bigs in the league.

Wallace was undrafted out of college and played for a D2 school as a forward. Because of this and good guidance from coaches and role models, he knew his only chance at making a career for himself in the NBA was with defence and rebounding. To me, Ben is one of the first examples of what big men are in today's game and to this day is probably still the most athletic and dominant defender of that ilk due to his work ethic (and possibly steroids lol). He opened the door for big athletic dudes who work hard but don't have much skill; who carve out a career as a viable team player. In doing so, Ben kinda killed a generation of finesse bigs in the process because every coach in the NBA wants a systemic big who is strong enough to defend 5s, quick enough to switch on guards, long enough to protect the paint and passing lanes, and unselfish enough to understand that he can help an offence more by finishing oops above the rim then ever dribbling the ball. It's almost a necessity in our game today for big men to have that Ben wallace makeup and I feel like we're seeing an influx of talented bigs who have all the qualities of Ben + an ability to pass like Pau and post moves like Olajuwon (I can dream on embiid). None have truly stepped up to encompass all of these players, but it's pretty apparent what coaches in this league want at minimum from their bigs. Case in point biz making 18 mill to set screens, roll and rebound. It's nuts really, but it's all because of Ben imo.

Further to that point, by simply looking at dws, we can look at the single most dominant years on that end here.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_season.html

We see the top 20 years statistically according to bbref are littered with mostly bill Russels domination of the 60s with a couple big years from other great defenders of that Era, but the 2 outliers are Ben wallace 03/04 and Olajuwon of 89/90. I would argue that the 80s, 90s and early 2000s were basketball's golden age and any statistics taken from outside this window need to be observed with an grain of salt due to the competition being a little watered down. That being said, Ben got it done at the highest level of competition and he was the leader of a championship team that won because of its sheer dominance on the defensive side of the ball. Scroll a little through the top 250 seasons according to dws and you'll see Ben Wallace all over the place.

Looking a little deeper into some more analytical numbers, we can see what Ben really meant to his team on that end of the court. Single season defensive BPM has 5 seasons of Ben Walace in the top 10 of all time and the top 3 are all Big Ben.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...pm_season.html

Another good metric that sheds a positive light on Wallace's career is NBA maths TPA model. According to them, Wallace appears 5 times in the top 10 seasons by their defensive metric and twice more in the top twenty. According to their career numbers, Wallace ranks 3rd all time not far behind Duncan and Olajuwon (2 players who played much longer then him).

http://nbamath.com/nba-career-standings/

So considering I can argue Wallace's peak was greater then Olajuwon's and many other big men defensively, and the numbers say his 15 year carear stacks up to the best who had longer careers, I think it's safe to say Wallace is in the conversation as one of the best bigs of all time defensively. I understand you think it's blasphemous to make this suggestion, but many basketball analytics would suggest I at least have a case.

[Maverik]

definitely not Dirk, Olajuwon out-performed him in every category

Duncan maybe

looking at the 94 Rockets and 03 Spurs is pretty interesting

almost the exact same kind of team build, never noticed that before

[Spencer 555]

Duncan had pop

[Sanosuke]

Gross Sano.

Howard won DPOTY 3 times in a row after wallace was gone.

[Spencer 555]

Ya but it's Howard. Ew

[Sanosuke]

Ya but it's Howard. Ew

I mean you said the league hasn't seen someone has good at center defensively since wallace, but howard is the only one to win the award 3 years straight... if you're gonna disregard that just because of "ew" then idk what to tell you.

[Spencer 555]

Naw ur right, Howard was a beast their for awhile and is still an above average defender. Just dislike him a lot. He had the chance to be something great, but got caught up in the bullshit media and tried to develop post skills that werent gonna come.

[The Professor]

Duncan had pop

Duncan is infinitely more important to San Antonio than Pop. Even if it's close, you take Duncan every time.

Also, Ben had Larry Brown, one of the better defensive minded coaches ever. Just look at his Sixers teams defensive numbers. Ben is great, but he didn't deserve all those DPOTY awards. He had strong raw numbers, but those don't always tell the story. The Pistons as a whole were great defensively with not one chink in their armor. I think Howard, Duncan, and KG were all better.

[The Professor]

definitely not Dirk, Olajuwon out-performed him in every category

Duncan maybe

looking at the 94 Rockets and 03 Spurs is pretty interesting

almost the exact same kind of team build, never noticed that before

Yeah, I saw that Drex was on the 95 team, not 94 so it's close. Second best player for SA was SJax in 03. Still salty about that. Pretty sure SA beats LA if he's in the team. Went to Atlanta for a shitty contract.

[Spencer 555]

Prof, I don't really consider KG and Duncan 5s, but if we're gonna call Duncan a 5 which is arguable, Duncan is probably on that tier 1 with Olajuwon and Russel defensively. KG was definitely a 4 though.

And my mention of pop was totally a troll. Duncan carried a lot of spurs teams in the early 2000s. I just wish I watched more western conference ball back then. I pretty specifically watched Vince back then lol and I hopped on the Pistons bandwagon in 2000 or so.

Interestingly, that 04 spurs team had a better regular season adjusted defensive rating then the Pistons team I'm hyping.

Edit: and in terms of Howard being better defensively then Wallace, I think he had the potential to be better after his first couple years in Orlando, but ever since he moved to the Lakers he's been trying to be something he's not and he's proved over and over that he's mentally and physically soft.