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  1. #1461

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    Maybe if the Yankees would stop tossin fuckin 3-1 pitches right in his wheelhouse he wouldn't of dragged his dick across the diamond this game, just watching how they pitch to him aggravates me.

    This game pisses me off tonight.

  2. #1462
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    Dude there’s no way to pitch to Mike Trout. And no, no need for a pitch by pitch analysis. I get the pleasure of watching him destroy every pitcher we have multiple times a year.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Butcher View Post
    seeing a dick go in and out of a vagina doesn't excite me..

  3. #1463

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    @Marez the changeup doesn't look any different honestly. It's always been pretty good. I think the improvements are coming from pitch mix. I'm not super optimistic.

  4. #1464

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer 555 View Post
    @Marez the changeup doesn't look any different honestly. It's always been pretty good. I think the improvements are coming from pitch mix. I'm not super optimistic.
    You're taling about changes from when he was a young raw player? He throws three pitches, and they're getting good results, and he has an elite defense behind him. Heaney Skaggs and Tropeano are all pretty legit SPs.

  5. #1465

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    I mean, hes still young and raw, weve only seen a pretty small sample here and the only adjustment I can see is that hes thrown more sliders this year then in years prior. The stuff is relatively the same.

    Hes a lefty finesse pitcher, I wanna see more before I invest. Hulkys talking about a 10 team mixed league here. The only angel you mentioned that I really want in that format is Skaggs unless I'm streaming.

  6. #1466

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    I wasn't talking about fantasy (he's already on my team), but in real life. I think he is becoming a really good pitcher.

  7. #1467

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer 555 View Post
    I mean, hes still young and raw, weve only seen a pretty small sample here and the only adjustment I can see is that hes thrown more sliders this year then in years prior. The stuff is relatively the same.

    Hes a lefty finesse pitcher, I wanna see more before I invest. Hulkys talking about a 10 team mixed league here. The only angel you mentioned that I really want in that format is Skaggs unless I'm streaming.
    What are you talking about "in years prior?" What are we comparing it to? 100 Innings in like 2015? This isn't a guy that had a large sample size. Are you really saying that going into 2016 your thought was that that was exactly who Heaney was and who he would always be?

    And in terms of being a "finesse" pitcher, that's not really fair. His Whiff%'s have been great this year, and were great before his TJS in 2016 and after his TJS in 2017. Plenty of people liked him as a potential breakout back in 2016 same as Skaggs before he had TJS.

    Again, two of them are small samples, but his last three Contact%'s have been 74.4%, 71.1%, and 73.5%. In 2015 it was 81.7%. His Whiff%'s have been 12.6%, 13.5%, and 11.9%. In 2015 it was 8.6%. These are all significantly better numbers and over samples that are undeniably relevant.

    ANd don't underrate the team defense behind him either.

    I'm not too concerned about Heaney. I don't think he hits a 3-Flat ERA or is as close to a 10 K/9, but as a mid rotation starter with decent ratios and Ks? Yup.

  8. #1468

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    So wait.. in your first paragraph you basically argue that comparing his production this year to his last couple years is silly. But then bring up stats from those years in the next paragraph to argue your point? What's it gonna be lol.

    His peripheral stats are fairly nice, but his batted ball profile has been pretty awful so far in his career. I think the sample this year is too small to accept as his new baseline. Are you expecting him to continue limiting hard contact like hes done so far this year without any noticeable pitch change/improvement?

    By finesse pitcher I only mean that he relies on location and command more then would a guy throwing gas. There's no doubt that Heaney's "slider" and changeup are plus pitches for him, but his fastball is easily his worst pitch. Patrick Corbin is a pretty good comparison to this dude imo.

    I totally agree with you on the angels team defense. It was a big reason I was high on Richards heading into the year this year. And I'm on board Heaney being an intriguing guy, but my main concern with Heaney is his proneness to homers. Until he can limit that for more of an extended period, I'm not gonna be that high on him in shallow formats.

    @hulky ya I saw you pick him up in fantasy so I assumed you were pumping him up because of that.

  9. #1469

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer 555 View Post
    So wait.. in your first paragraph you basically argue that comparing his production this year to his last couple years is silly. But then bring up stats from those years in the next paragraph to argue your point? What's it gonna be lol.

    His peripheral stats are fairly nice, but his batted ball profile has been pretty awful so far in his career. I think the sample this year is too small to accept as his new baseline. Are you expecting him to continue limiting hard contact like hes done so far this year without any noticeable pitch change/improvement?

    By finesse pitcher I only mean that he relies on location and command more then would a guy throwing gas. There's no doubt that Heaney's "slider" and changeup are plus pitches for him, but his fastball is easily his worst pitch. Patrick Corbin is a pretty good comparison to this dude imo.

    I totally agree with you on the angels team defense. It was a big reason I was high on Richards heading into the year this year. And I'm on board Heaney being an intriguing guy, but my main concern with Heaney is his proneness to homers. Until he can limit that for more of an extended period, I'm not gonna be that high on him in shallow formats.

    @hulky ya I saw you pick him up in fantasy so I assumed you were pumping him up because of that.

    Your using his 2015 as a building block in trying to find a "difference" between what you remember from three years ago and now. I'm comparing peripheral stats to show what he's doing differently, at least in terms of results.

    You're just wrong about the sample too. Not in like a rude way, but his sample is massive in terms of Contact/Whiff%. Those rates stabilize on a per-pitch basis. He's thrown over 700 pitches this year, so I have a 700 pitch sample. And the fact that they've been similar in every small sample he's gotten is highly significant to me. Again, you're talking about a guys FIRST 100 innings and you're not fairly treating him like he was a rookie figuring out what the hell he was doing. Plenty of people were optimistic coming into 2016 that as a highly talented pitcher he could take a step forward. I mean you're right, maybe his Change-Up's movement isn't different... but if he's locating it an inch better that might be enough for the difference. Maybe he's learned to throw it better?

    Corbin's a pretty damn good pitcher right now. Don't understand that being a knock.

    I need to do a rerank to know exactly where I'd rank him, but I'm much more confident in his ROS than you it appears.

    Either way, I have certain criteria for a pitcher that is actually fairly rare to be filled out. Heaney checks all my boxes. Not that many pitchers check all my boxes, so I'm pretty high on heaney. Like his aresenal, like the depth of it, like the mix, and like you said-- "poor" FB pitcher, but plenty of pitchers make up for that with location. If he can locate, keep off balance, and utilize secondary stuff well, as he has for his first ten starts, he should be fine.

  10. #1470

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    Lol I'm not trying to knock the dude, Marez. I just threw the Corbin comp out there because you made it sound like I was implying finesse pitchers weren't able to induce a lot of whiffs.

    "And in terms of being a "finesse" pitcher, that's not really fair. His Whiff%'s have been great this year, and were great before his TJS in 2016 and after his TJS in 2017. Plenty of people liked him as a potential breakout back in 2016 same as Skaggs before he had TJS."

    And Corbin is a prototypical finesse pitcher who induces a lot of whiffs.

    I don't think I'm as low on Heaney as you think. I wasn't denying any of the stickiness to the peripheral number improvements, I just think the proneness to homers he's developed over the last couple years is a problem that hasn't reared its ugly head just yet this season. With a 40% grounder rate and near 40% hard hit rate, a couple more homers isnt really crazy to imagine. His launch angle and average exit velocity are way down from his career norms (2000+ pitches before 2018) despite not really changing anything (and despite players trying to hit the ball higher, vive la revolition). I dont buy that this is because of a tangible adjustment or improvement and I think these numbers will regress back to near his career norms pushing his era back into the 4 range.

    My ROS projection would have Heaney finishing the year with an era just above 4 while maintaining his excellent k/9.

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