For MLB fans

[Hugh]

You've spent half your Sunday giving the same reason. You said because he might get injured. Might get injured. Your reason was, is and I'm sure will continue to be that he might get injured.
Yes there are reasons why a coach might pull a player in that situation, but because he might get injured is the reason you gave and what this mind-numbing conversation had been about all day.
And yes, again, if you would honestly pull Machado today, in the middle of an epic and possibly historic performance, and the reason you gave is that he might get injured...then I think that's a prick move and more about you than anything else.
That's my opinion and why I've been responding this way.
I'm done too.

[Hugh]

Wrong sport, but Nick Foles was pulled early against the Raiders when he already had 7TDs.

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

[Gryph]

lmao, this is still going on? Keep it going.

[Spencer 555]

I feel like a coach who would do what you suggested would have to be extremely arrogant and stubborn. I feel like shutting the door on something special or even historic, despite what fans or players or anyone else wants, and not for any really good reason at all, let's be honest, is just a prick move all around. I mean you can say it's about injury risk, but these guys from Spring on play 200 games a year and could hurt themselves at any time. The real reason someone would do it, I think, is because they don't give a shit about the record and want the players to know who's boss.

Dude, buck showalter is actually a huge fuckin prick. His way or the highway. I think you're probably right that he'd leave his player in the game, but I doubt very highly it's for the reasons u've stated. I think most managers in baseball.. most good managers, will do anything they believe is good for the team and disregard accolades. I think it's been stated before, but the managers job is to keep players happy and win, and if he believes that the best course of action is to sit his player he will (sometimes sitting a player doesn't affect his happiness, machado might agree with the decision, neither of us knows lol). The context of the situation raaaaarely matters ESPECIALLY in a tight AL east like this.

[Spencer 555]

GRANTED, I think managers in baseball are behind the systematic douchey coaches in football, basketball and hockey in terms of romanticism. I know some of what you've been talking about here (hugh) still exists and some managers are still fans of the game. I just think managers are becoming more "responsible" in terms of putting players health above everything. Look at the Aaron Sanchez going to the bullpen situation. If you're not familiar with that situation, Sanchez is a young pitcher on the jays who has never pitched over 130 innings in his career and the jays are worried about pitching him more then like 180 innings this year based on.. theory. It has nothing to do with scientific studies that suggest if he pitches less innings his arm will be healthier, it's just plain babying. They have determined that the long term benefit of putting Aaron Sanchez in the bullpen (which I remind you has no scientific proof of being beneficial at all so it's just based on a hunch) outweighs the chance of him winning a cy young and being our ace for the rest of the year. The manager and GM do not care that sanchez is the front runner for the cy young this year (or at least top 3) and they don't care that he can help them now as a starter. What they care about is his long term health and thats it. Stories like this are pretty prevelant around the league right now. It isn't really a big leap to assume managers will continue trending in the direction of babying players. Just look at the NBA and the san antonio spurs and how much praise they get for treating the fans like shit and resting entire starting lineups.

[Hugh]

Sorry but I've talked this subject to death and can't keep saying the same thing anymore. This isn't an issue of player safety. If Machado feels fine and healthy and the game is comfortably in hand and he has a real shot at hitting 4 or even 5 home runs in a game, you let him. Pick another time to rest him, but let the player play and perform. Pretty simple.

[Sanosuke]

I'd prolly bench machado and that wizard of a SS they have if we're up by 9 runs that early. Let some other guys on your bench get some at bats. Machado is an other worldly talent. He'll hit 3 HRs again. I'd leave him in if it's early in the season but we are in the late season, a couple months away from playoff baseball. I wouldn't risk injury, just like I wouldn't risk a lead and not let Craig Kimbrel convert a 4 out save in the playoffs like some manager whose name won't be said that was fired.

[Spencer 555]

Sorry but I've talked this subject to death and can't keep saying the same thing anymore. This isn't an issue of player safety. If Machado feels fine and healthy and the game is comfortably in hand and he has a real shot at hitting 4 or even 5 home runs in a game, you let him. Pick another time to rest him, but let the player play and perform. Pretty simple.

My point with the aaron sanchez thing is coaches will do what they want based on nothing. If they think it will be beneficial to rest machado for 2 innings of a game where he has 3 homers and 7rbis they will. If they don't they won't. It's a pretty simple concept and has nothing to do with context. Not really sure what you're failing to understand.

I get that baseball is a sport with a lot of romanticism and accolades mean a lot, but to most coaches and teams, accolades mean literally nothing. For all u or I know, if buck showalter removed machado from the game, machado woulda been like "Whatever's best for the team coach, u da boss". We don't know what's going on in the minds of these players or coaches, the only thing we can be sure of is that MLB clubs are progressively becoming more risk averse. You're making these blanket statements/assumptions that coaches and players care what fans want, but you can't really back up your statement with anything other then the fact that YOU think the right move is to keep the player in the game.

I just want to be clear here and say that I agree the right move is to keep the player in the game because u never know what will happen in baseball and u should treat every game like it's the last day of the season and you're tied for first. But I can't stand up for you when you're making assumptions about what players and managers WILL do. We can have an argument based on what they SHOULD do, but you're idea of what they will do (to me) is misguided. Like I've said multiple times now, every single year, the MLB is progressively babying the players more and more and if you're living under a rock and can't see that it's only going to get worse then this argument has been useless.

[Hugh]

Well good things coaches get it, otherwise baseball would be even more boring than it already is.

[Spencer 555]

Well good things coaches get it, otherwise baseball would be even more boring than it already is.

Well I mean, buck probably doesn't get it. Like Gypsy and I have said (and I know buck pretty well as a guy who's managed a team that I hate for years) he's the type who literally doesn't give a fuck about the fans or the game. He's a coach who wants to win at any cost and will do what he believes is best for the team to win. It just so happens that his approach lines up with keeping machado in at all times, never resting his players and getting rookie pitchers to throw at people.

If for example, a manager like buck (win at all costs managers - most managers in baseball) believed machado resting for 2 innings was the best chance for his team to win and make the playoffs, you're damn right that he would. Look at what joe maddon has done with the rays and the cubs and he's been praised as a genius. Look what the biggest dick coach in the world (he's awesome) Greg Popavich does every year with the spurs. Sits players and wins. Theres no real proof that sitting his starters keeps them fresh for the playoffs, but he does it and guess what! It has worked (no proof it's because of him resting players) AND GUESS WHAT other teams have copied it to varying success. It's gotten to the point in the NBA where star players (lebron james) demand rest and fans criticize coaches who push players too hard (35 minutes a night!? BLASPHEMY). The same shit is happening in baseball and every sport.