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Thread: Balance and Debugging - Alpha Release

  1. #31
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    How do you think the Illusionist is OP? I think the Wizard is OP, but I like the idea of having a powerful unit with low defense capabilities, reminds me of the witch.


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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    I just noticed there isn't teleportation yet, is that not a thing anymore?
    Teleportation is easier to do than unit blocking. Animations are also easier. Only reason there wouldn't be teleportation in an end game, is because it's decided that it is a bad game mechanic.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocatt View Post
    Teleportation is easier to do than unit blocking. Animations are also easier. Only reason there wouldn't be teleportation in an end game, is because it's decided that it is a bad game mechanic.
    Why is it a bad game mechanic? Not teleportation anywhere, I mean the ability to pass a unit that's blocking the way. Like the dragon can do, not like the Illusionist.


    just some rage and three kinds of yes
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  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    Why is it a bad game mechanic? Not teleportation anywhere, I mean the ability to pass a unit that's blocking the way. Like the dragon can do, not like the Illusionist.
    I'm not saying it is...just saying there is no reason other than game mechanics/balancing not to have teleportation.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristocatt View Post
    I'm not saying it is...just saying there is no reason other than game mechanics/balancing not to have teleportation.
    How's your game coming along? I'm really looking forward to it, too.


    just some rage and three kinds of yes
    vi veri veniversum vivus vici
    quit these pretentious things and just punch the clock

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    How's your game coming along? I'm really looking forward to it, too.
    It's coming along well. The last major thing I need to do is figure out the three.js framework. Or just throw together a bunch shitty 2D graphics. I won't be able to combine Unity with the browser anytime soon though, if I ever manage to get to that.

  7. #37

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    Are you working on allowing units to pass through, Hulky? Or are you going it more like chess? I'm not sure if I'd dislike it if it stays this way, per se, but it definitely changes the game pretty significantly. I think it makes defending significantly harder since you can't retreat a unit as easily. Are the blocking mechanics going to change? I really think it should vary depending on the side you attack from, and also that would add in the need for your ability to change unit direction. Dragon attacks should be unblock able IMO. High wait time (and i assume he will count as 2/10 unit slots) means he's gotta hit every time. Otherwise he's useless. Blocking is a pain in the ass right now. I've seen the paladin dude block like 4 shots in a row. Da fuq. Illusionist is a boss. I think 8 Illusionists and 2 paladins = auto-win, but I could be wrong. Shrub flanks, move in, attack, teleport away. Repeat until win. At first I thought the wizard was OPd but I think he's cool. Easy to kill, but powerful. Similar to witch. I'm not sure how useful the priestess is. I can see what its trying to do, but I'm not sure about its practicality. A lot of the units are tough to judge due to the play of the AI. Though I did just had a decently tough game when the AI actually attacked with almost all his units. He never heals though. What's up with that? lol. Are we going to get any focus units?

    Bugs: I'm not sure if you're aware, but on the mac version, units seem to randomly jump off the tile they are supposed to be on. And in the campaign mode, the game kind of "freezes" when its your opponents turn and there is a shrub left on the board. I guess the game recognizes the shrubs as units, but they can't move so the turn gets stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    My knight completely owned that priestess, is it supposed to be like that? Also, I noticed that there aren't "finish off units" like the mudquake would do 5 damage and kill something, I noticed that every unit attacks with a significant percentage, at least 30% of the opponents health is taken off. Should we ratio it so that units last longer?
    Pretty sure that's supposed to be like that. Priestess is a healer. Knight is a tank. Tanks should own healers. In terms of 5 damage attacks, mud was the only to do that. I do think that damage should be decreased for illusionist and maybe some other units. Dragon is good. Knight might be good too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kash
    I'm supporting longer games, so making the board bigger and making the units sturdier is what I'd go for. This would allow for more strategies than just moving and attacking. Right now it's really, really hard to strategize. I'm not sure if it's the hex board, the fog or my unfamiliarity with these units (maybe the latter), but I'm having trouble forming an attack plan (like getting rid of range or killing cleric first etc). Right now my attack patters and the AI's attack patterns are random.
    Disagree on longer games w/ bigger board. Sturdier units may be beneficial. But I'm not too sure yet. Attack patterns definitely seem random from the AI, but I haven't really had a problem organizing my attack. Maybe you just need to play a few more games? I see a lot of similarities w/ TAO, but just figuring out each unit changes the mechanics slightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kash
    Since this is the case, I'm going to get more familiar with the game then I can give some balance input. But I'd definitely increase the ratios right now just so units last longer, maybe add a finish off units, and make the board bigger. Maybe introduce obstacles on the board that you have to play around, like rocks. You can also use these in your attack.
    Board doesn't need to be bigger for Player v. Player. Maybe in campaign mode the board can be large with obstacles and even hex tiles. I think that could be a cool change in pace. But i like PvP should keep the board relatively small.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    I was also hoping that there would be an option to check the opponents stats when you click it on the board.

    p.s this fog is really throwing off my strategy. Do you like it, AFO?
    I do like FOG. Agreed on checking opponents stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kash View Post
    How do you think the Illusionist is OP? I think the Wizard is OP, but I like the idea of having a powerful unit with low defense capabilities, reminds me of the witch.
    Illusionist is OPd. I think damage needs to be reduced dramatically. Or it shouldn't be able to attack twice. It def shouldn't be allowed to Move/Attack/Teleport in the same turn. Def OPd. I'm not so sure about the Wizard. I think its pretty good. Easy unit to kill.

  8. #38

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    Thanks everyone for the burst of feedback. Going to edit this post with some responses.

    @Kash: Your board size issue is just on Campaign which is not a mode I'd make in a multiplayer. It was more look at some other things that could be done (Hex, purchase units, fog of war, etc.). The mode that would look like the networked game would be most like the Hotseat multiplayer (but the other player wouldn't be the same color, that was a derp. Hotseat or v. AI one of those both teams are the same color). Teleportation exists on the Illusionist as an ability.

    @AFO & Kash: The walking past your team probably has something to do with colliders and checking if there is something in the way (similar issue to LOS, and when I get to LOS I think the "side step friendly" could be done around there.)

    @Kash Illusionist is the best unit hands down lol. Even more broken is it can teleport off the grid in the hotseat mode which isn't a bug as much as it is an issue with coding. Generating the grid makes rectangles (like 11x12) thing you disable certain tiles to make the shape we wanted. For some reason though the teleport ability still sees these disabled tiles.

    @AFO&Kash: If you want to look at the Unit Stats and compare them to TAO, divide the power and health by 3.

    @AFO: Yeah a plant is a unit so the AI just doesn't know what to do so they infinite stall. If you are playing campaign you gotta kill the shrubs before the last unit.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by |AFO| View Post
    Are you working on allowing units to pass through, Hulky? Or are you going it more like chess? I'm not sure if I'd dislike it if it stays this way, per se, but it definitely changes the game pretty significantly. I think it makes defending significantly harder since you can't retreat a unit as easily. Are the blocking mechanics going to change? I really think it should vary depending on the side you attack from, and also that would add in the need for your ability to change unit direction. Dragon attacks should be unblock able IMO. High wait time (and i assume he will count as 2/10 unit slots) means he's gotta hit every time. Otherwise he's useless. Blocking is a pain in the ass right now. I've seen the paladin dude block like 4 shots in a row. Da fuq.

    Are we going to get any focus units?
    I pretty much agree with all of this, wondering about focus units too. Friendly pass should be an option because that does drastically change the game, and for the better too.


    Pretty sure that's supposed to be like that. Priestess is a healer. Knight is a tank. Tanks should own healers. In terms of 5 damage attacks, mud was the only to do that. I do think that damage should be decreased for illusionist and maybe some other units. Dragon is good. Knight might be good too.
    Priestess is not only a healer, it could attack too. The AI just attacked me with it so I went ahead and hit it with my knight. I like the theory of a mudgolem, let's make it happen. The mud golem would be so key in evening out the HP that Seed planned it out so well. For example, dragon hits scout, mud golem mudquakes and done. There are so many more attack patterns that required the mudgolem, which is why it was used so often in both styles. Removing focus, for example. Or removing shrubs.

    I definitely think we need to make it easier to see unit stats, it should be something like a hover mechanism. Hover over the unit to see its stats, similar to TAO.

    Disagree on longer games w/ bigger board. Sturdier units may be beneficial. But I'm not too sure yet. Attack patterns definitely seem random from the AI, but I haven't really had a problem organizing my attack. Maybe you just need to play a few more games? I see a lot of similarities w/ TAO, but just figuring out each unit changes the mechanics slightly.
    I probably do need to play a few more games, been busy. There have been a similarities with TAO, not a lot, and I like that. We need to keep the essence of TAO while creating a completely new game.

    Board doesn't need to be bigger for Player v. Player. Maybe in campaign mode the board can be large with obstacles and even hex tiles. I think that could be a cool change in pace. But i like PvP should keep the board relatively small.
    Are you thinking about the size of the TAO board or a bit smaller? Because in opposite side games, it would at least 3 turns to get to the other side of the board.

    I do like FOG. Agreed on checking opponents stats.
    Fog is fine. The only thing I'm worried about is that people are just going to sketch where a unit is so I don't see a point to it really, it doesn't help formulate an attack plan more than it does test your memory. In tournament games, the guy that can simply remember where his opponents pieces are has an advantage, this won't work if someone is time cramped or when playing blitz games.

    Illusionist is OPd. I think damage needs to be reduced dramatically. Or it shouldn't be able to attack twice. It def shouldn't be allowed to Move/Attack/Teleport in the same turn. Def OPd. I'm not so sure about the Wizard. I think its pretty good. Easy unit to kill.
    I agree with this. It can teleport anywhere on the board too which makes it way too dangerous. We can muzzle it, but maybe we can think of creating a new unit that counters that power, like a defensive unit. We don't have many defensive units in play right now.

    So, do we pretty much agree on square tiles for pvp?


    just some rage and three kinds of yes
    vi veri veniversum vivus vici
    quit these pretentious things and just punch the clock

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulky View Post
    Thanks everyone for the burst of feedback. Going to edit this post with some responses.

    @Kash: Your board size issue is just on Campaign which is not a mode I'd make in a multiplayer. It was more look at some other things that could be done (Hex, purchase units, fog of war, etc.). The mode that would look like the networked game would be most like the Hotseat multiplayer (but the other player wouldn't be the same color, that was a derp. Hotseat or v. AI one of those both teams are the same color). Teleportation exists on the Illusionist as an ability.
    I like Hex, purchase units and fog of war in campaign mode. But for multiplayer and pvp I think it would be better if we did square tiles, no fog of war, and drops? Are we doing drops? It would be cool to have it random too rather than on an algorithm so someone like BR can't figure it out.

    @AFO & Kash: The walking past your team probably has something to do with colliders and checking if there is something in the way (similar issue to LOS, and when I get to LOS I think the "side step friendly" could be done around there.)
    How is LOS going by the way? For square and hex tiles?

    @Kash Illusionist is the best unit hands down lol. Even more broken is it can teleport off the grid in the hotseat mode which isn't a bug as much as it is an issue with coding. Generating the grid makes rectangles (like 11x12) thing you disable certain tiles to make the shape we wanted. For some reason though the teleport ability still sees these disabled tiles.
    Where did you get the idea for the illusionist? What do you think about a unit like the mudgolem that is used to even out damages to make them easier to kill. Like the dragon+mudquake combo for the scout. We don't copy the mudgolem, but something that can spread small but significant amounts of damage. This might be OP in hex considering how many tiles it would hit. But it would be interesting nontheless.

    @AFO: Yeah a plant is a unit so the AI just doesn't know what to do so they infinite stall. If you are playing campaign you gotta kill the shrubs before the last unit.
    I rarely shrub for some reason, do you think we could have a unit that is solely for the purpose of creating shrubs? Like the furgon. With other units, I'm attacking rather than shrubbing since I can't see a defensive strategy here.

    Have you guys tried defending?


    just some rage and three kinds of yes
    vi veri veniversum vivus vici
    quit these pretentious things and just punch the clock

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