General New Game Discussion

[Hulky]

Still need to make a shield, but that's pretty much what I had in mind unless you guys have anything special you'd like added.

[Mar]

That's not the point. Its not a comparison between the two, but a suggestion that if it drastically changed chess, then it will do the same for TAO. I'm just not too sure why yall are trying to make so many changes. I think changing the units first is enough. Trying to change everything at once is just going to result in a different game. If that's what yall want to do that's cool, but different units, different map, hex tiles. Probably isn't going to have a TAO feel to it anymore. I could be wrong though.

I agree with this and don't think we should change it so it lacks strategy, but we can always give it a shot and change it later if it doesn't work out. I definitely think new units are a must, there should be a learning curve for even the old players, but hex tiles are debatable.

[Mar]

Still need to make a shield, but that's pretty much what I had in mind unless you guys have anything special you'd like added.

Is that a knight? Maybe make him a little bigger?

[Gabe]

That's not the point. Its not a comparison between the two, but a suggestion that if it drastically changed chess, then it will do the same for TAO. I'm just not too sure why yall are trying to make so many changes. I think changing the units first is enough. Trying to change everything at once is just going to result in a different game. If that's what yall want to do that's cool, but different units, different map, hex tiles. Probably isn't going to have a TAO feel to it anymore. I could be wrong though.

Ultimately if you play any game with the expectation of it being TAO or a TAO-clone you are going to be let down. Simply because we can't rip TAO too much, there are legal issues.

The game we are building is indeed going to be a new, different game. It'll still have a TAO feel to it, but with slight changes to features, units, mechanics, etc, etc.

Think of it like ESO versus Elder Scrolls. ESO, by its own standards is a good game, but so many players went in expecting an Elder Scrolls game and were disappointed. Hopefully we don't disappoint everyone, but its good to set expectations that the game won't be a direct copy of TAO.

Naturally, a lot of testing is going to go into this new game, and one of the things we all will be looking at will be how to best balance defensive and offensive units and strategies.

[Mar]

Ill definitely beta test when we're at that stage, even just playing with the skeleton would be helpful in balancing. Especially because we will have a much wider variety of unit types.

[Hulky]

Skip like 3:30 to ~4:30 to ditch the load time on importing the object

This is just me trying to understand what it might sorta be like for what Matt and Gabe are doing. I burned out a bit from overloading on unit making so this is a mini-break that is still somewhat productive. The alpha I'm making is using the same program Gabe is using (but not Matt), but they are doing Hex and I'm going to try square. Mine probably won't make it as far as theirs but it's at least helpful to me to visualize how stuff fits in the game, what works and what doesn't yada yada. Mine's 3D as well, I just have the camera in full top down mode in the Youtube video (I'll move it to a more appealing angle down the line after some graphics are added (like a physical board [the grid shown is invisible. I just have it showing right now to make sure I'm not building it wrong (originally I couldn't figure out how to show it and then I figured that out. Then once it showed I realized I math'd wrong a bit and one of the lines was off to the side lol).

Notes of the day are coding is confusing as hell, like it makes sense but can get super frustrating trying to find the words to do what you want it to do. Then even more so when you mis-capitalize or typo an extra } or miss a semicolon, etc. Kind of fun to start to understand the process a little more though.

[Mar]

Looks like it's coming together well, make sure not to burn out since that might delay the project. Instead do it little by little and not a whole lot at one time, that's better for learning too. Are you trying to program too? Have you guys all been collaborating frequently? It's important to function as a team and share breakthroughs often too. I'd like to partake if I can but I'm not sure I can help at this stage, I also have other things going on at the moment. I'll let you guys know.

[Hulky]

New units (concept stats and arts/animations).

Not willing to share quite yet though as I have a ton of learning left to do before I can make anything worth seeing though.

Animations will include:
Attack - Attack animation, multiples if multiple types of attacks
Move - movement.
Hit - Flinches a bit when hit.
Block - if relevant
Death - collapse to ground/ then disappear

Tile previews - Select unit, tiles change color to see whats available as legal options.

I'm super far behind the learning curve, but I don't feel stumped yet so that's good.

One new thing I've thought about and asked some people about that is generally well received (but some reservations) is something like this:
1) Imagine TAO exactly as it was for balance sake.
2) There is no barrier ward unit.
3) Units that can't kill (or paralyze) opposing units do not count towards end game (no more chasing a furgon and cleric around the map when they are the only ones left)
4) Cleric gains a secondary attack (like mud golem could punch or quake) hold = heal team, click individual = barrier. This allows the barrier ward ability the ability to move, something that would make it more powerful as an offensive tool. Move + Attack is 5 turn wait. So to move the cleric, then barrier would create a 5 turn wait and focus attack. Then if you move, heal, barrier something else, or rotate focus is broken. (Note this leads to a question of if Barrier, into break barrier, into heal in a single turn is OP; also makes offensive barriering more viable [barrier opposing units to prevent them from being healed]).

This makes the game of kill the cleric even more so. Perhaps no self targeting on barrier. Moving your cleric forward and barriering your offensive attack is something aggressive, freestyle and turtle formations could use. Like blocking LOS to Cleric, then barriering the stone golem then fighting off the threats is something relevant in turtle perhaps.

Anyways I am going to roll with it in my version, then we can test it whenever it gets that far. Do you guys have any thoughts on that?

[Hulky]

Would you guys like to see a specific unit? Like the coding isn't done so I can't show a lot of it, but like general appearance if someone's really hyped and really wants to see current progress.

Unit 1: Invader/Knight Like foreign armor / Sword / Sweep Attack / Self Explode [suicide bomb] - TAOComp = Assassin
Unit 2: Halberdier/ Middle ages-esque Armor / Halberd [spear/axe hybrid weapon] - TAO Comp = Berserker? Beast Rider? Maybe like Elephant in the Units thread where it pushes units back.
Unit 3: Wizard / Looks kinda fruity like swindler fake magic / staff / multiple spells - TAO Comp = Pyromancer/Dark Magic Witch/DragonSpeaker Mage
Unit 4: Archer / Armored chain mail / Quiver on back and hip / Bow / Sword /Bow for range/Sword for 1 tile away animation same damage - TAO Comp = Scout
Unit 5: Priestess / Staff / Up to 3 spells [Barrier / Team Heal / and either push back opposing unit or individual concentrated heal] - TAO Comp = Cleric
Unit 6: Knight / Armored / Sword and Shield - TAO Comp = Knight
Unit 7: Electric Elemental - TAO Comp = Lightning Ward
Unit 8: Fire Elemental - TAO Comp = Golem Ambusher
Unit 9: Disease Elemental - TAO Comp = Poison Wisp
Unit 10: Nature Elemental - TAO Comp = Furgon
Unit 11: Machination Automaton = TAO Comp = ??? Some sort of large combat unit.
Unit 12: Earthen Elemental - TAO Comp = Mud Golem
Unit 13: Ice Elemental - TAO Comp = Frost Golem
Unit 14: Rock Elemental - TAO Comp = Stone Golem

+ more elementals if we want them. I have a dragon and the wolf, but haven't imported them yet as I might replace them.

[Hulky]

Currently I have 13 units uploaded into my board (plus one sub-unit).
1. Archer (Scout-like)
2. Dragon (Dragon-Tyrant-like)
3. Earthen Elemental (Mud Golem-like)
4. Fire Elemental (Golem Ambusher-like)
5. Halberdier (Unique - AFO's idea of a guy that pushes units back)
6. Ice Elemental (Frost Golem-like)
7. Knight (Knight-like)
8. Lightning Elemental (Lightning Ward-like)
9. Paladin (Assassin-like)
10. Priestess (Cleric/Barrier Ward-like)
11. Seed Elemental (Furgon-like)
- Bush (Shrub-like)
12. Spirit Elemental (Stone Golem-like)
13. Wizard (Pyromancer-Dark Magic Witch-like)