Yeah, we shit the bed and winning the East is probably out of the question now.
But the Cavs can eat a dick tonight! John Wall dropped 37 and 11 on sorry ass Kyrie.
Printable View
Yeah, we shit the bed and winning the East is probably out of the question now.
But the Cavs can eat a dick tonight! John Wall dropped 37 and 11 on sorry ass Kyrie.
I meant winning the east as in making it to the finals.
I've got a new top 50 I'm gonna post at the end of the season :). Wall, Beal and Porter are among the biggest risers.
Fucking kings 22-3 run to beat the Clippers. Are you kidding me???
Starting to hear rumors the raps might let Kyle go in free agency. Would be a massive mistake.
Is the plan to tank? Who could they bring in that's better than Lowry? The NBA is kind of a joke now tbh since Durant went to GSW.
You should read up on this more. Lowry is 31, and aside from a couple of healthy seasons in Toronto, has been injury prone here and there. On top of that, he will be looking for max money, which is somewhere between 180-200 million for 5 years. Studies have shown that PGs typically decline around age 32-33. It's not that insane to comtemplate considering their window may only be this year, and two years more. Maybe.
Well yeah, but if the assumption is that they only have two more years before their window closes don't you just max Lowry and then gut the team to tank 2 years from now? Not signing Lowry seems like they think they already missed their chance and want to start the tank now.
Like, there are players I'd want on my team over Lowry. I don't see the Raptors getting any of them.
If they let Lowry walk, they'll be also ran status for several years with Derozan at the helm. I don't wanna watch the raptors grind for that 8th spot. Other then that last sentence by serge, it's essentially how I feel about the situation. Our window is basically closing after this year because of cap construction, and yes I think the raptors are a top 5 team in the NBA with Ibaka and tucker and a healthy Lowry, but if we sign Lowry there are scenarios where that window is extended and we can go into tank mode at the end of it or when Lowry declines.
Prob top 6 next year when Sixers get a healthy Simmons and Embiid plus their 1 or 2 top picks in this draft....#Homie4ROYQuote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
Lol keep dreaming Philly. You guys are a playoff run away from being in the conversation.
If I had to rank teams based purely on paper. My rankings would be (and this is considering fully healthy):
GSW
SAS
CLE
LAC
RAP
WAS
HOU
I think the top 4 are pretty much locked in and the next 3 all have an argument for 5th, but these are the playoff contenders.
I'm not at all convinced the Celtics are as good as the record shows. Thomas is their best player and he's a huge liability defensively. By every metric and the eye test Thomas is the worst defensive player in the league lol and the Celtics are ranked 25th+ in rebounding %. In fact last time I checked they were 29th.
Maybe I'm just a D'Antoni fan, but I put Houston 4th on that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
It's hard to see the rockets defense holding up in the playoffs. I don't think Harden has another gear then what he's been all season. Their defensive rating is misleading because they have such a dynamic offense that other teams give up when the rockets go on their inevitable run. That won't happen in the playoffs against the better teams who will grind it out.
It'll be interesting to find out if I'm wrong though haha. Like in baseball, run production value is essentially limitless even though people value pitching, defense and run prevention seemingly more. Flawed analytics.
Which lineup is better:
Lowry + Derozan + Carroll + Patterson + Ibaka
Vs
Wall + Beal + Porter + Morris + Gortat
Vs
Harden + Beverly + Ariza + Anderson + Capella
Vs
Paul + Reddick + Mbah a Moute + Griffin + Jordan.
Because those are the lineups that get the most minutes in the playoffs for each team.
I'd personally rank Houston 4th on that list.
Also rank the benches I guess.
JV + Joseph + Tucker + Powell
Mahinmi + Jennings + Oubre + Bogdanovic
Nene + Harrell + Gordon + Williams
Rivers + Speights + Crawdaddy + Felton
I'd probably actually rank the clips last on this list, and the rockets first for what it's worth, but they might even go 8 men deep in the playoffs with that team.
In a 7 game series I think Houston could easily compete with any of those teams. And I don't think the Clippers are constructed well with 2 bigs that can't shoot. CP3 is stuck in an awful situation. I definitely take Houston over the Clips. The other two maybe, but Rockets are def right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
I agree def Rockets on this list. I think they're better than people give them credit for. Also I think Westbrook deserves MVP over Harden. I just think D'Antoni is playing to his team's strengths and love what he's doing. He should win COY in my opinion if you're not giving it to Brett Brown :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
Haha ya I'd give to either DantonI or pop. Pop is kinda a God every year though.
This is such a silly thing to say. "I believe the other 29 teams are pretty accurate, but not this one! Especially BECAUSE they're winning basketball games."Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
Where did I say all the other teams are accurate lol.
Boston is in first place in the east right now and I think they could lose in the first round.
Because all you did was build a case against houston. Ofc Isaiah Thomas is going do be a fucking defensive liability. You try guarding people that literally have 6"+ on you every game.
Try guarding people when you have 2 really slow front court players in your most used front court and an elite offensive combo guard who doesn't play defense consistently. (Ryan Anderson, Clint Capela and James Harden). Capela is promising defensively, but hes very green in the league, and cant make up for andersons incompetence. Ariza and beverly can only do so much for that team defensively and then the bench takes over and u have defensive sieves on your bench. They're ranked 17th in defensive efficiency ahead of a few teams I think have better defensive players and compositions.
Namely the wizards, pacers, bucks, magic and cavs...
I think Harden is just as good if not a better fit in D'Antoni's system then Nash/Stoudemire were. That team was so fun to watch and I think it's why (with the sixers out) I'm cheering for the Rockets. They're super entertaining and look at how he runs the offense it's out of this world amazing. I think they average like 2-3x more 3's per game then the NBA record coming into this year. They also only shoot 3's or from within 3 ft of the basket. It's amazing how no other team has tried to mimic (at least successfully) this strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
Side note - Westbrooks triple double last night....Out of this world amazing. Think about all the other teams that had stars leave and how bad they were the next year.... Cleveland sucked, Toronto Sucked... Hornets (now pelicans) sucked when Paul left, Lakers post Kobe, Sixers after Iverson trade. Westbrook has his team in the playoffs the first year after Durant left and they're 12 games over .500. Simply amazing he should be the unanimous MVP.
I don't know how u can love the rockets so much and not think Harden is the mvp :p.
Honestly agree with everything ur saying bout Harden and the rockets, just not confident it's gonna work in the playoffs.
I'm a basketball fan. How people are choosing Harden over Westbrook baffles me lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
Harden is having a spectacular year with only slightly better talent around him than what's in OKC I suppose, but just don't see how people aren't appreciating what Russ is doing. We're watching one of the best statistical runs in the history of the NBA. I really wish the Sixers could find a way to scoop him up lol.
Sorry, Russ chasing rebounds doesn't impress me. He's the worst PG in the league at contest rate and FG% against because he's leaving his man to crash the boards and pad his stats. He leads the league in rebounds off missed free throws, because his big men box out for him and let him take them.His scoring and assisting are impressive, but the numbers he puts up are as much a product of his usage rate (7% higher than 2nd place Harden!) as they are his ability.
I wouldn't want him honestly. I don't know how you can win a championship with Russ unless u surround him with complimentary players. Defense first players who can shoot or get offensive rebounds like Jordan had. Those Bulls teams were dominant defensive teams more then they were offensively talented imo. Mj just propped up the offense with his shear statistical dominance. Like MJ, Russ would be a one man show on any team he plays for (even surrounded by talent) and that's really hard for players to gel with. To me Durant left because he felt Westbrook was a ball hog, and to me he's not wrong. The sixers young players would have a hard time developing surrounding russ imo.
Harden is honestly pretty similar, but he does it a lot more efficiently and with a lower usage rate.
Edit* wouldn't want him on the sixers.
Could you imagine russ on the pelicans?
Who else is going to use possessions on that team and pose the same threat? OKC is literally only relevant BECAUSE of Westbrook.Quote:
Originally Posted by KBHoleN1
if that happens sixers could get Jrue back :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
And as much as I can't wait to see Simmons and Embiid play a full year with the Homie complimenting them, I'd gladly take a Westbrook and let Brett Brown coach him. There are definitely better fits than Russ, but still would be fun to watch that team run the floor.
I think Harden should win MVP. Not gonna lie, before the season started, I thought Houston wasn't even going to make the playoff, and OKC was going to end up being the 5th or 6th best team in the West.
I'm not very impressed with Westbrook's assists and points, he's improved his passing a little bit but he's always been capable of this scoring and getting this many assists, he just has the balls in his hands every possession now since KD is gone. Despite of all that, he has't made much improvement, he's still a terrible decision maker, especially down the stretch. The rebounds are impressive though, yes he does chase rebounds but sometimes you just see him almost jump out of the building and snatch rebounds with just pure athleticism.
IMO, OKC has to end at least 4th or 5th in the West to have a legit MVP conversation of Westbrook vs Harden, if they end up 6th or 7th, Harden is the easy choice. You can say D'Antoni's system is helping him alot but he's improved his decision making alot and has become more of a willing passer. That being said, I have yet to see Harden have a great playoff run, I don't remember him playing great since he was in OKC during the playoff, everyone bashed Howard but Howard always showed up with the Rockets during the playoff as opposed to Harden.
Also, @ Spencer, man you overate how good Lowry is offensively by alot lol. I think the Wizards are the second best team in the East.
I don't deto. You just underrate him, as do most people.
You're kinda trolling me at this point. Ive listed so many undeniable facts about Lowry that make him a great player and you continue to think I'm just a dumb homer because I like the raptors. I don't wanna hear it anymore lol.
If anything, I underrate Irving and think he's all flash and 0 substance.
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Spencer 555
I don't underrate him at all man, I have always been high on Lowry but I think we are at a point where both Wall and Kyrie have surpassed him.
are you kidding me? I told you that just last season and probably the last couple of seasons I had Lowry higher than Kyrie and Wall, a top 20 player, maybe even top 15. He's even been snubbed a few times from being an allstar starter but since the second half of last season, playoff and throughout this year I'd rather have Kyrie and Wall. I think you underrate Wall more than Kyrie.
I never said he isn't a great player, I'm simply saying he really isn't as good offensively as you think he is or you describe him to be.
Naw I've got Wall ahead of Kyrie now. On my list I said Wall could take a big step if he could get Beal and Porter more involved and the team gelling and it seems like he's done that. The wiz defense the last 10 or so games has been concerning though..
I also said it baffled me that the wiz were so bad when I posted my top 50 and said that wall and Beal need to be better then this. They've outperformed any reasonable expectation I would have had since then haha!
I still have Lowry ahead of both, but Wall is really close. Actually have all 3 pretty much clumped together. Wall is a jumpshot away from being a top 5 player let's be honest. And Irving is... consistency/hustle away from being a top 10-15?
And to answer ur claim that he isn't as good as I think offensively, Ive always said that Lowry is a second option. Lowry is not skilled enough offensively (like Irving absolutely is) to be a #1 scorer. Wall also imo is not a #1 scorer on a championship contending team. But he has Beal and Lowry has Derozan who both are. Irving doesn't compliment LeBron, he just gives LeBron a breather every once in awhile and makes some nice iso plays that we can all oooahh at.
But value of a player should be higher for what they can do in the playoffs. Lowry is like the player version of the Thibodeau Bulls, plays really hard in the regular season but can't take it up another level during the playoffs. In fact, his scoring was down significantly in 14-15 playoffs and 3 points less in 15-16. And it's not like he has all world defenders hounding him especially with Derozan able to siphon some coverage away.
Lowry is great in the regular season, but when everyone plays hard in the playoffs, his limitations rear themselves. And at 31, he may get better one more year, but after that there is a good chance he'll decline significantly.
He's already showing signs of decline defensively. But the offense is on the uptick along with Derozan. Id say this is the first year I feel really comfortable with their offense going into the playoffs.
Derozan is having a true breakout this year, and Lowry kinda has had a weird progression.
Year one was kinda fluky
Year 2 he was out of shape and wall made him his bitch
Year 3 was the elbow injury he played through (skinny Lowry woulda made that cavs series at least somewhat interesting)
Year 4 is prove it season.. skinny lowry is still a top 20 player in the league and is better then wall and irving. He's injured now, but his offensive percentages and efficiency is up across the board since the beginning of the season. He and Derozan need to prove it in the playoffs this year because the cavs don't appear as strong as last year and teams like Washington/Boston are going to pass us as Lowry declines (if they haven't already)
That all being said, I'm selfish. This core is still good with a declining Lowry and the raps are a big enough market to sign him. The fans deserve a couple more playoff runs even if it means we may watch Lowry fall apart. Lowry's game is built on basketball IQ, Hustle and playmaking.. so he seems like the type of player who can age gracefully.
Lowry with 27-10 day back from injury while playing 42 minutes. Safe to say he's healthy for the playoffs.
I know this is gonna sound homerish, but I think the raps are gonna win the east unless LeBron goes full beast mode again.
But you haven't beaten the Cavs once this year. That's what it'll come down to is being able to grind out wins over the Cavs in a series. Unless the Cavs fall apart, I don't see how anyone in the East will beat them, especially after what they did to Boston last night.