TAO Top 100

[Mask]

Yeah you guys did great. Big X was away for studies and a lot of guys went away. I was busy with my 3rd child being born and this is when I slipped off both FPS and Legends maps for awhile. The 4 of you really did make a name for us over there and helped get some great people, like that weird Bogart guy...

We also recruited the likes of BrutalRage, Lemon, Omar (at some point before he went to lead his own clan) Voltron, ff7cloud, Supernatural, Forbes, Bloody-Killer, Oblyvion (Entrain), Snakebite, Jack115 etc.

I remember BrutalRage saying something like that he didn't plan to join any clans at all but liked SI and how things were ran inside the clan. I think he also liked how SI greys used to give him challenge in games (I remember him saying something like that).

[zzzaacckk]

Was a bit surprised to see Big X and Twelve both not on that list. Twelve was dominant on Great Lakes as Eindeg-Dein back when it was Warcow, Himself and Myself in the top three.

Thanks for the shoutout though guys, quite the honour.

[Rubbish]

Love you manon!

[manonfire101]

50 of thems are noobs. Good effort put into the list. Nice descriptions.. Could help with some of the backgrounds likes Quicks and others..

In awe some of those people are even listed.. Kinda .. insulting to some of the better players.. solid top 8-10 for sure though.

Thanks. Which players do you think I left off who deserved to be here? I'm always open to changing this a bit, but you're going to have to really sway me.

Entries for Quicksand would be great, or for any older players. Master of the Blade, Tcbb would be great.

[Blasphemy]

This may cause some drama. YOLO

I think people's memories of the skill level of older players are greatly inflated for some strange reason, I think it's just natural for us to forget. And this is a point The Professor has agree'd with me on.
Strategy in players greatly improved in later years. As we got older, we simply got better. Many close games that came down to a 60% block for victory against PS, manon, unfo, bone, AFO, etc in later later years, simply didn't happen in the early years.

I take umbrage with Sniper Master being ranked so high for his Freestyle. When he knew he was losing against me, he would change his strategy to a more luck base in high-hopes for a victory. Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. I think BrutalRage should be ranked dramatically higher for his sheer brilliance in Gray if you want to rank Sniper for his freestyle.

PS ranked at #8 is great, but I think we forgot about his dominance 3 years in a row (2010-2012) prior to me making this dominating Blasphemy alt in 2012, then I took over PS as TAL champion. PS is the definition of a consistent winner. I would rank PS at #2, if not #1 for TAO accomplishments. Don't think anyone else here has has pulled a Michael Jordon.

Regardless of how much Unfo and Bone were trolls, they are ranked way too low. Put their later-year-skills in the early days of the game, there would be no question of a Top 10 placement. Bias inflation of skill level of early-years players is quite evident when you put these players at #58 and #76.

Have a lot more to say, I keep looking at this list and reminding myself Manon put this together with his bias in mind.

I don't know, maybe. What are your TAO accomplishments?

If you really think you put this entire list based on accomplishments then try to think back to my 2013 dominance.

Won almost all League 1 RGL's and was undefeated in 1 Gray and 1 Turt 2013RGL.
Won 4 out of 6 ODT's I participated in.
Grand Slam Champion
WDT Champion
WAR Champion
RAAT Champion (don't forget it all came down to our Turtle game in the finals, Manon. I have the video if you need your memory refreshed)
Over 100 TAL points at the end of the year with nobody else even close. The #2 and #3 2013TAL players combined didn't even add up to as much.
*takes a breath*

Everyone knew I made this Blasphemy alt in 2012 after my very first tournament I smashed the #1 pick The Professor in GS4 Gray, so I don't expect you to put an alt on your Top 100 rankings, but to think you compiled this based on the accomplishments of players is silly.

[manonfire101]

You might have a point if you omit context when you talk about accomplishments. Winning TAL Finals in 2013 when the game is on life support is not as impressive as winning TAL Finals in 2008. Neither is winning a Grand Slam, RGL, or any other tournament.

You guys were good players, but you were good in an era of TAO when the evolution of sets had stagnated and hardly anybody played. Consequently, I think a lot of your skills just came from repetition, just doing the exact same shit with the exact same sets over and over again. You were bound to get more efficient. It would be hard not to. But I think that a lot of players would have achieved a similar skill level as you all did if they had continued playing. Contrast that with older TAO, where the best starting sets were not really evident, updates were still occurring, and there was a way bigger and more competitive population. I have to really stress this point, because I think you all are taking for granted what you inherited from older generations of TAO.

Brutal was not as dominant in grey as Sniper was in freestyle. Sniper dominated RGL when it was exclusively freestyle against the best players in the game. I 3'0'd Brutal in his grey challenge. If I was going to move a player up for being dominant in grey it would probably be Lemon. Actually, I think Sniper may be ranked too low. You can make a good case that he was the best freestyle player ever. And I tend to put a little bit more stock into freestyle than into grey or turtle since freestyle has no restrictions. Essentially nobody could beat Sniper with any set for a long time.

PS is fine at 8. I don't think I really need to address this a lot. I played PS more than anyone here and have a pretty good idea of where he should be ranked. Feel free to make your own ranking if you think you can improve on this one, though.

Congratulations on beating me in turtle, a lot of people did. I mean, fuck, even Chain's beat me in turtle a few times.

[Blasphemy]

I agree with you that strategy doesn't seem to exist anymore from the moves being so repetitive and predictable. This is mainly due to the fact that 99% of the sets players use have a Cleric in the back corner. Most good players know they need to build their strategy based on killing the cleric then holding solid ground until victory. Especially with 2 scouts, defensive sets simply crumble against any good rusher. This is a point AFO has tried to tell Guide. This isn't Chess, where there are a trillion different moves. TAO can be broken down much more simpler. The cleric in the back corner has pretty much always been the Norm, even in the adolescent years of TAO. Over time people began to realize the best strategy is strategic rushing.

Winning TAL Finals in 2013 when the game is on life support is not as impressive as winning TAL Finals in 2008. Neither is winning a Grand Slam, RGL, or any other tournament.

I actually played in the TAL Tournaments 2008. I can tell you the skill level of those players simply were not as advanced as the players (as you say on life support) in 2013. I can watch my batshit crazy lack of strategy games, but still beating some of the best players in 2008, and compare them to the TAL Tournaments in 2013, the best 2008 players were not as good as 2013 players.
I think it comes down to a fundamental disagreement of the skill of oldschool vs newschool.
imo, an average newschool player, like Vish, would be ranked among the best if he played against oldschool players.

[The Professor]

Playing as an alt is stupid. Well actually it's pretty fun, but it's stupid for this debate.

It's just such an unfair advantage. I had this conversation with Cua awhile back but basically it boiled down to this; knowing your opponent allows you to try strategies that are more effective while he/she has to be more conservative (depending on player). I'm not going to do certain things against an unknown since it could be strategically catastrophic.

That's why I never considered you/Guide/whoever to be great. Oh you got your wins in, especially on me here and there. But considering the advantage you had, or should of had, it's really surprising you weren't more dominant. Especially considering all the time played perfecting sets and strategies.

Also, as far as comparing somebody like Vish to older players, it's probably not accurate. I've played Vish a couple of times and his skill is more from repetition than true creative skill. Just like older players sometimes inflate their memories, so do newer players arrogantly believe they are the best for perfecting strategies and styles that have evolved since.

[Blasphemy]

It's just such an unfair advantage.

his skill is more from repetition than true creative skill.

You complain about an unfair advantage, but yet you think true creative skill existed. It didn't.
The game is built a certain way: 2 scouts, 3 knights, cleric etc. The repetitive strategy is evident in everyone because players took advantage of repetitive sets.
The Anti has been the normal set used by the top players for the longest time.
I remember back in 2008, people would get angry at me for using a DSM. They would even request before a game start, "No DSM". Some players would call you a pussy for using a DSM. These players were simply bad at making sets, and only knew how to use the Anti.
Strategy became repetitive because the sets sucked. Newer players became better and better and better at perfecting the Strategic Rush. "position mud golem" "position scouts" "kill cleric" "pull back until victory".
To win games, creative strategy was not needed.
Newer players simply became better at rushing than old players.

[The Butcher]

DK > the rest of you noobs.

What always baffles me is how someone like Frylock could win EVERY SINGLE GAME. I understand being good but Frylock didn't play scrubs... and he still won pretty much all the time. I liked that.